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we've got this idea with respect to UFOs

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this is a lot of you be very familiar

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with this you could probably fill in a

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blank other than UFOs with some of the

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topics we've heard this weekend but talk

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about UFOs

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so UFOs can't exist therefore they don't

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that's the given McCarl a corollary of

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course is that human could not possibly

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be abducted by aliens

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therefore they are they aren't and of

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course when you have that type of

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thinking that type of mindset it

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completely circumvents and closes off

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any additional serious research because

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there's nothing to research you know the

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answer before you start and this is of

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course as a problem as I said with many

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of the topics this weekend but I might I

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dare say that it perhaps it is

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especially true with the question of

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alien abductions or if you will alien

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abduction syndrome have another little

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problem here and this ties in to

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Professor Westerns talked to some degree

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talks about talk about my colleagues my

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colleagues don't take this very

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seriously most of them because they

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might argue it sounds just like another

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case of hysteria it sounds all too

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familiar to many of my colleagues in the

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mental health field you know been there

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done that

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heard about this before you know to what

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degree is behavior a function of

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cultural cultural competence or culprits

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oozma cultural cognizance cultural

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awareness we've seen this type of thing

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before wear something that's virtually

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unheard of all of a sudden before you

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know it it's everywhere it's everywhere

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so back in the 1980s Satan appeared to

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be running rampant in the United States

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and having his way with many of our

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children there were a number of things

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that created this satanic hysteria in

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this great concern about satanic ritual

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abuse and one of them was the book

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Michelle remembers which generally has

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been found to be fraudulent written by

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psychiatry

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so you know it's got a got to be

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credible right because the psychiatrist

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wrote it and it's a story of a child who

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was exposed to early trauma from you

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know a a satanic wannabe you know

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satanic sexual ritual abuse and then we

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have Rosemary's Baby the movie in the

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book in 1988 there was a book Satan's

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underground all of these things created

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a kind of hysteria where there was this

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great concern about satanic ritual abuse

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the interesting thing was that the vast

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vast vast majority of these cases when

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they were investigated there was little

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to nothing to support it few had even

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heard of satanic ritual abuse before

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this happened then we have one of the

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most tragic incidents really in history

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the McMartin preschool trial this was at

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one of the books and if you're not

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familiar with that case in 1983 this was

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an unbelievable a teacher was child a

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teacher and a preschool was charged with

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molesting a child now the case initially

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didn't go anywhere because there wasn't

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a lot of evidence to support it however

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the Chief of Police took it upon himself

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to send a letter to parents saying well

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even though this individual was not

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we're not going to charge him you know

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you you better be careful because we do

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have some concerns that something may

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have happened well that Unleashed it and

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I'm going to read you something one of

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the accounts of what happened thereafter

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as word spread around your child may

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have been a victim of abuse under the

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pressure of questions by parents child

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abuse experts and police the children

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eventually began to tell tales of abuse

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as time passed the stories became

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unbelievable they claimed that they had

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seen mutilations murders dead and burned

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babies they saw movie stars involved

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with the abuse flying witches local

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politicians children said that they were

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forced to and

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Agence satanic rituals including the

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drinking of blood they were taken to

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airports to be flown to other cities for

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this sometimes they used airplanes and

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sometimes hot-air balloons

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children were flushed down the toilet

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traveled by sewer you get the idea all

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was said and done there was virtually no

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evidence that this occurred well it's

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kind of interesting because one of the

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things that you hear from time to time

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not very often but I should say that

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there are some there are some not many

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but there are some in the UFO community

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and there are a number of people outside

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of the UFO community who believe that

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Satan may very well very well be

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involved with these abductions that

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these so-called aliens are really

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demonic entities and as I said most

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people don't even give that a second

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thought but I might just throw something

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out at you parenthetically this was a

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book written by Nick Redfern called

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final events he talks a little bit about

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this hypothesis that not just these

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aliens quote-unquote but even ties it

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into the UFO phenomena in general could

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have some type of tie-in with Satan I

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don't want to get into it up here it's

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very complicated but it's a let's put it

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like this it is thought-provoking let's

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get back to our hysteria here and we

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have another situation here

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the associative identity disorder

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formerly known as multiple personality

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we have a similar situation practically

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unheard of we certainly had some cases

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and then in the 1970s you'll excuse the

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expression all hell broke loose for a

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number of different reasons one of the

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reasons what whoops sorry was the

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and the book Sybil Sybil was a story of

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a woman who ostensibly had 16 different

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personalities they made a movie Sally

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Field was in the starting role a lot of

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my students say oh I know about Sybil

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yeah it was a fascinating case well

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unfortunately a lot of students don't

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know about another book called Sybil

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expose the extraordinary story behind

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the famous multiple personality case by

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investigative reporter

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Debbie Nathan and based on Debbie

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Nathan's investigation of the civil case

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it is at best iatrogenic and most likely

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purely fraudulent and yet all of these

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cases of multiple personality we went

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from several hundred pre-civil to

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thousands and thousands post-civil

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workshops on multiple personality

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courses on multiple personality experts

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on multiple personality in 1992 Sheppard

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Pratt Hospital a local hospital hired a

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expert in multiple personality disorder

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and the number of cases increased by 900

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percent after that time of course in

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1980 multiple personality was officially

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recognized by the American Psychiatric

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Association so insurance companies

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insurance companies would reimburse the

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psychiatrist was happy big farmer was

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happy you know so how does this relate

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to alien abductions well we just heard

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dr. westrom talk about Whitley Strieber

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but Hopkins we have movies Close

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Encounters we have it became part of our

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cultural awareness cultural cognizance

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and then when these books came out when

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it became a culturally became more

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culturally aware of it than what did we

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have we have cases now of alien

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abductions and then a similar type of

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scenario as he said he have some

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or groups you have experts you have

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conferences all of a sudden you've got

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hybrids

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you've got reptilians you got alien

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alien half-alien half-human babies to

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mental health professionals this was as

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Yogi Berra said deja vu all over again

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here we go again it's just another type

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of hysteria so from what I've said so

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far you might say well gee well why

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bother what's the point well I even even

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consider this why even to look in this

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if there is so little of substance which

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supports the verticality one might argue

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so far by what so much of what is

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written and spoken and presented it's

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then why bother to look into this well

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there's a couple of things first of all

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there are some very very highly

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respected very credible scientific

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researchers that study this and we've

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heard from two of them this evening also

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there are some good and scholarly work

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out there well there we go these are two

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books of varieties of anomalous

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experience and I mentioned this book

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this book is not specifically about

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alien abductions this book is about a

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well what it says a variety of anomalous

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experiences and yes it is a play on

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words memorializing William James is

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classic varieties of religious

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experiences talks about a number of

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different topics including some that

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we've heard here this weekend and one of

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them was at one of the articles written

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by the esteemed Stanley Crippler that we

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heard this this morning talks about

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anomalous hearing healing but one of the

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one of the chapters has to do with alien

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abductions and written by psychologists

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and they very carefully look at some of

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the more popular hypotheses fantasy

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prone personality psychopathology sleep

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paralysis etc the interesting thing

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about the chapter on abductions is that

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if you read the chapter very Kerr

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fully they don't really come to a

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conclusion they really can't

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definitively say what's going on they

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basically say that some of these

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hypotheses some of these hypotheses may

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explain you know some accounts but no

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hypothesis really explains all of these

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accounts of abductions so this is a book

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the abduction and then enigma written by

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a psychologist a medical doctor it tends

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to be anti abduction but I think it's

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worth reading and I think it's also been

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sort of misunderstood that I think what

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it does is to talk about the importance

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of being very careful researchers you

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know you should rule out such things as

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sleep paralysis such things as you know

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hallucinations you should rule these

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things out before we start assuming that

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it's people are being abducted so it

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looks like we're I think what I'm gonna

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do here is I'm gonna move on a little

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bit I want to talk about me and I want

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to talk about one of the cases that I

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want to discuss a little bit this

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evening so you sort of see where I'm

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coming from so I was sort of skeptical

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about this whole issue in the 1970s mid

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1970s I worked for a while as a there I

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say this as a bartender at Bolling Air

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Force Base in Washington DC what used to

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be called bowling field and one night it

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was tending bar and this gentleman came

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in and he had a very distinct southern

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accident and I asked him where he was

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from and he says well I'm from a little

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town called Pascagoula in Mississippi

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well I was aware of this Pascagoula case

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this Pascagoula abduction case that

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occurred back in October of 1973 there

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are a lot of abduction cases some are

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more compelling than others on the

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surface the Pascagoula abduction case

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is the most inane the most ridiculous

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the silliest got a couple of good old

275
00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:19,550
boys at they're going fishing one night

276
00:13:24,879 --> 00:13:22,639
and all of a sudden they they hear this

277
00:13:27,999 --> 00:13:24,889
zipping sound they turn around they see

278
00:13:29,499 --> 00:13:28,009
this blue ship there and they get into

279
00:13:33,610 --> 00:13:29,509
this ship and they report being abducted

280
00:13:36,189 --> 00:13:33,620
and this this eye contraption supposedly

281
00:13:40,449 --> 00:13:36,199
circled around them and they went out

282
00:13:42,970 --> 00:13:40,459
and you know ended up talking to the

283
00:13:46,629 --> 00:13:42,980
police in the military so this this

284
00:13:49,269 --> 00:13:46,639
gentleman at the at the bar was actually

285
00:13:52,540 --> 00:13:49,279
a police officer and pass a ghoul in

286
00:13:55,780 --> 00:13:52,550
Mississippi and he was at Bolling Air

287
00:13:59,499 --> 00:13:55,790
Force Base on I guess he was it was in

288
00:14:01,809 --> 00:13:59,509
the reserves so I met him and I

289
00:14:04,030 --> 00:14:01,819
interviewed him and we spent some time

290
00:14:06,850 --> 00:14:04,040
together and he says some interesting

291
00:14:08,829 --> 00:14:06,860
things to me about the one of the two

292
00:14:12,100 --> 00:14:08,839
gentlemen involved with the case Charlie

293
00:14:13,689 --> 00:14:12,110
Higson he was 42 he said to me said did

294
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:13,699
you know that Charles Hickson was a war

295
00:14:17,620 --> 00:14:16,370
hero and I said no he said did you know

296
00:14:20,590 --> 00:14:17,630
that Charles Hickson passed the

297
00:14:22,629 --> 00:14:20,600
polygraph tests that I said no Jim the

298
00:14:24,670 --> 00:14:22,639
case was taken very seriously by Air

299
00:14:29,970 --> 00:14:24,680
Force personnel at Keesler Air Force

300
00:14:32,769 --> 00:14:29,980
Base I said no he said he says I know

301
00:14:36,009 --> 00:14:32,779
Charlie Hickson he says I worked with

302
00:14:38,790 --> 00:14:36,019
the with the man he says these stories

303
00:14:41,110 --> 00:14:38,800
of him having a drinking problem are

304
00:14:44,860 --> 00:14:41,120
exaggerated he's not prone to fantasy

305
00:14:47,620 --> 00:14:44,870
and he says he was he was I guess he

306
00:14:49,689 --> 00:14:47,630
still was at that time but he had been a

307
00:14:51,790 --> 00:14:49,699
member of the pass a goal of police

308
00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:51,800
department and he was involved with the

309
00:14:57,009 --> 00:14:54,850
case and he said to me that his

310
00:15:00,250 --> 00:14:57,019
colleagues on the police department

311
00:15:03,759 --> 00:15:00,260
almost to a person were convinced that

312
00:15:06,069 --> 00:15:03,769
Hickson in the 19 year old friend Calvin

313
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:06,079
Parker were telling the truth and he

314
00:15:11,559 --> 00:15:08,810
said to me did you know that they were

315
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:11,569
secretly tape recorded and I said well I

316
00:15:15,699 --> 00:15:13,970
heard tell about that but they must have

317
00:15:17,650 --> 00:15:15,709
known they were being tape recorded and

318
00:15:18,850 --> 00:15:17,660
this police officer said to me his name

319
00:15:21,759 --> 00:15:18,860
was Bill Gennaro

320
00:15:23,620 --> 00:15:21,769
he says I can assure you it worked for

321
00:15:25,129 --> 00:15:23,630
the Pascagoula Police Department they

322
00:15:26,989 --> 00:15:25,139
did not know

323
00:15:29,660 --> 00:15:26,999
they were being tape recorded this

324
00:15:31,999 --> 00:15:29,670
happened shortly after the abduction now

325
00:15:37,069 --> 00:15:32,009
what I have here I don't I hope we can

326
00:15:39,499 --> 00:15:37,079
show it is the actual this is not a

327
00:15:43,929 --> 00:15:39,509
reproduction this is the actual tape

328
00:15:50,119 --> 00:15:43,939
recording of Charlie Hickson aged 42 and

329
00:15:53,179 --> 00:15:50,129
Calvin Parker aged 19 after they went to

330
00:15:54,979 --> 00:15:53,189
the to the police department and they

331
00:15:57,019 --> 00:15:54,989
were placed they weren't arrested but

332
00:15:59,689 --> 00:15:57,029
they were placed in this room alone the

333
00:16:00,979 --> 00:15:59,699
officers left them alone figuring

334
00:16:03,019 --> 00:16:00,989
they're going to say oh we pulled a fast

335
00:16:04,830 --> 00:16:03,029
one over and didn't wait well that's not

336
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:04,840
exactly what what they found

337
00:16:23,290 --> 00:16:20,570
[Music]

338
00:16:26,129 --> 00:16:23,300
returned

339
00:16:34,170 --> 00:16:26,139
[Applause]

340
00:16:41,770 --> 00:16:38,500
although additional beyond the initial

341
00:16:41,780 --> 00:16:55,619
[Music]

342
00:16:55,629 --> 00:17:01,400
you know the last time

343
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:07,460
[Music]

344
00:17:19,329 --> 00:17:15,370
you know that I guess she really put

345
00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:19,339
upon initially they don't even painted a

346
00:17:28,690 --> 00:17:21,530
hurt me right why don't you stick Tessa

347
00:17:38,890 --> 00:17:36,480
[Music]

348
00:17:42,010 --> 00:17:38,900
basically these two guys are talking

349
00:17:44,190 --> 00:17:42,020
about really being horrified being

350
00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:44,200
frightened nobody's gonna believe us

351
00:17:51,390 --> 00:17:47,600
what are we gonna do you know that there

352
00:17:55,900 --> 00:17:51,400
was no evidence that they were lying now

353
00:17:58,390 --> 00:17:55,910
this police officer this whole thing

354
00:18:00,730 --> 00:17:58,400
kind of really make you piqued my

355
00:18:07,420 --> 00:18:00,740
curiosity so there's Hickson and Parker

356
00:18:09,820 --> 00:18:07,430
so let's let's fast-forward to 2003 30th

357
00:18:13,170 --> 00:18:09,830
anniversary of the passing ghoul

358
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:13,180
abduction case I was giving a talk at a

359
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:15,530
seminar called mysteries of space and

360
00:18:21,490 --> 00:18:17,810
sky and I decided to talk about this

361
00:18:25,060 --> 00:18:21,500
case and what I did was to have a series

362
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:25,070
of interviews with Charlie Hickson and I

363
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:27,290
have to tell you I had a series of

364
00:18:32,770 --> 00:18:29,690
interviews with Charlie got to know him

365
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:32,780
somewhat well and I was convinced that

366
00:18:39,130 --> 00:18:36,650
this man was telling the truth I am

367
00:18:41,470 --> 00:18:39,140
convinced as was J Allen Hynek who

368
00:18:44,350 --> 00:18:41,480
interviewed him that he had an

369
00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:44,360
experience do not believe this man was

370
00:18:51,190 --> 00:18:46,130
lying I believe the man was very

371
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:51,200
honorable so if this case which on the

372
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:52,970
surface would be sort of the most

373
00:18:58,300 --> 00:18:55,970
ridiculous the most inane what does that

374
00:19:00,880 --> 00:18:58,310
say or suggest about some other cases

375
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:00,890
that may be much more compelling and if

376
00:19:08,190 --> 00:19:03,170
you will believable such as the Travis

377
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:08,200
Walton case so there's a picture of

378
00:19:15,370 --> 00:19:11,810
Charlie holding a sketch of he and

379
00:19:17,410 --> 00:19:15,380
Calvin would be with the UFO now I don't

380
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:17,420
haven't had a chance to do this to do

381
00:19:23,290 --> 00:19:19,970
this justice but suffice it to say that

382
00:19:26,740 --> 00:19:23,300
my opportunity to get to know this man

383
00:19:29,380 --> 00:19:26,750
change my attitude about abductions so

384
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:29,390
that it's much more open-minded now and

385
00:19:33,390 --> 00:19:30,890
again I ended up working with some

386
00:19:37,150 --> 00:19:33,400
people who claimed to have been abducted

387
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:37,160
abducted and then finally you know the

388
00:19:40,090 --> 00:19:38,570
theme of this conference is making

389
00:19:42,010 --> 00:19:40,100
connections I'm going to give you a

390
00:19:43,630 --> 00:19:42,020
chance to make some connections with

391
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:43,640
other people interested in this field

392
00:19:51,220 --> 00:19:46,210
with a shameless

393
00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:51,230
October 24 24th 2015 we're not going to

394
00:19:54,820 --> 00:19:53,120
be talking about Charlie Hickson but we

395
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:54,830
are going to be talking about mysteries

396
00:19:58,390 --> 00:19:56,570
of space and sky we're going to be

397
00:20:03,400 --> 00:19:58,400
hearing from Rob's why check his wife

398
00:20:05,590 --> 00:20:03,410
sue in in the lobby out there have some

399
00:20:08,110 --> 00:20:05,600
fliers I also have some here that will

400
00:20:10,470 --> 00:20:08,120
talk about it I hope that you folks will

401
00:20:13,659 --> 00:20:10,480
make some connections and considering

402
00:20:16,210 --> 00:20:13,669
coming attending the conference that

403
00:20:18,340 --> 00:20:16,220
fliers have all the information that you

404
00:20:19,899 --> 00:20:18,350
need to know about the conference I'll

405
00:20:22,990 --> 00:20:19,909
also be hanging around on tell you what

406
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:23,000
I know about it so far

407
00:20:27,430 --> 00:20:24,970
sorry for the sort of the helter skelter

408
00:20:32,380 --> 00:20:27,440
addressed here but I will leave you with

409
00:20:39,279 --> 00:20:32,390
one final sentiment thank you Peter

410
00:20:42,460 --> 00:20:39,289
I agree with you about the Hickson

411
00:20:44,260 --> 00:20:42,470
Parker case it is I mean it's really

412
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:44,270
hard to disprove that but the thing that

413
00:20:49,510 --> 00:20:47,690
makes it so ridiculous in spite of all

414
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:49,520
the evidence it's the fact they're

415
00:20:54,580 --> 00:20:52,250
they're not out in the woods are on some

416
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:54,590
distant lake I mean they're in an area

417
00:20:58,930 --> 00:20:56,210
in Pascagoula that was fairly well

418
00:21:01,000 --> 00:20:58,940
populated they were on the bank of a

419
00:21:03,490 --> 00:21:01,010
river I think it was off an old fishing

420
00:21:07,149 --> 00:21:03,500
pier or something like that and then

421
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:07,159
this craft just appears and opens it

422
00:21:15,190 --> 00:21:12,080
doors and these aliens float out and

423
00:21:17,919 --> 00:21:15,200
float them into it into this craft and

424
00:21:21,310 --> 00:21:17,929
then keep them for about a half an hour

425
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:21,320
now the hard part to believe is you know

426
00:21:26,620 --> 00:21:23,690
where was everybody else wasn't anybody

427
00:21:29,289 --> 00:21:26,630
seeing this crap was it interdimensional

428
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:29,299
you know just that that's the part of

429
00:21:33,340 --> 00:21:31,730
course about this whole phenomena is the

430
00:21:35,770 --> 00:21:33,350
way these things appear and then

431
00:21:38,710 --> 00:21:35,780
disappear but everything about their

432
00:21:40,690 --> 00:21:38,720
story holds true to me it seems to me to

433
00:21:42,789 --> 00:21:40,700
be what yeah and and my skepticism of

434
00:21:44,350 --> 00:21:42,799
this case also was because this is we

435
00:21:46,510 --> 00:21:44,360
didn't have the traditional gray alien

436
00:21:48,820 --> 00:21:46,520
we had this weird-looking mummy here but

437
00:21:50,669 --> 00:21:48,830
what I discovered from office in Janeiro

438
00:21:53,740 --> 00:21:50,679
and what I discovered in subsequent

439
00:21:57,490 --> 00:21:53,750
evaluations and research on this case is

440
00:21:59,049 --> 00:21:57,500
in fact at that time there was a wave of

441
00:22:02,680 --> 00:21:59,059
UFO

442
00:22:06,010 --> 00:22:02,690
in and around Pascagoula and some of

443
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:06,020
these reports did the reporters did say

444
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:09,290
they saw something down by that shawl

445
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:14,090
Peter shipyard close to word the the

446
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:16,970
incident took place so there were some

447
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:20,450
reports ultimately that ultimately came

448
00:22:25,210 --> 00:22:22,730
out they said yeah we saw something down

449
00:22:27,340 --> 00:22:25,220
in that same area but the police officer

450
00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:27,350
that I had a chance to interview said

451
00:22:31,299 --> 00:22:28,880
that there were sightings all over

452
00:22:33,909 --> 00:22:31,309
Pascagoula at that time including one

453
00:22:37,450 --> 00:22:33,919
that he had and of course October of

454
00:22:39,070 --> 00:22:37,460
1973 was part of the big flap year for

455
00:22:42,030 --> 00:22:39,080
UFOs and that so-called year of the

456
00:22:44,350 --> 00:22:42,040
humanoid last questioner hi Peter uh

457
00:22:45,940 --> 00:22:44,360
you've mentioned the kind of argument

458
00:22:48,159 --> 00:22:45,950
we've heard for many decades that

459
00:22:50,049 --> 00:22:48,169
talking about this more openly in the

460
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:50,059
media would cause mass hysteria going

461
00:22:54,070 --> 00:22:52,250
back to the War of the Worlds and that

462
00:22:56,260 --> 00:22:54,080
we're familiar with that argument but as

463
00:22:58,750 --> 00:22:56,270
a clinical social worker what about the

464
00:23:00,520 --> 00:22:58,760
flipside of this of the stress of a

465
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:00,530
person who has experienced this but

466
00:23:03,610 --> 00:23:01,730
can't talk about it

467
00:23:06,070 --> 00:23:03,620
maybe because they are served in an

468
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:06,080
official capacity and they only talk

469
00:23:09,310 --> 00:23:08,090
about it on their deathbed or something

470
00:23:12,430 --> 00:23:09,320
like that and I'll give you an example

471
00:23:13,930 --> 00:23:12,440
two years ago in Washington DC we had

472
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:13,940
the Citizen hearing which someone

473
00:23:18,159 --> 00:23:15,770
mentioned the Steven Bassett where we

474
00:23:21,039 --> 00:23:18,169
had 40 witnesses over five days at the

475
00:23:23,830 --> 00:23:21,049
National Press Club giving testimony

476
00:23:26,740 --> 00:23:23,840
under sworn oath to six retired Congress

477
00:23:29,409 --> 00:23:26,750
people including a senator we had for

478
00:23:32,310 --> 00:23:29,419
retired missile control launch officers

479
00:23:35,650 --> 00:23:32,320
who each told us similar stories of

480
00:23:38,470 --> 00:23:35,660
flying discs coming over their bases and

481
00:23:43,860 --> 00:23:38,480
all of maybe sometimes 10 to 15 missiles

482
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:43,870
going down at the same time and later on

483
00:23:47,950 --> 00:23:46,010
people would come into the base to have

484
00:23:49,870 --> 00:23:47,960
them sign something saying nothing

485
00:23:51,730 --> 00:23:49,880
happened and you won't talk about what

486
00:23:53,590 --> 00:23:51,740
never happened and there was one

487
00:23:56,020 --> 00:23:53,600
particular individual there his name was

488
00:23:58,299 --> 00:23:56,030
David Schindler he was shaking when he

489
00:23:59,799 --> 00:23:58,309
was talking about this because he

490
00:24:01,810 --> 00:23:59,809
couldn't decide whether to come to this

491
00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:01,820
event until the last moment because he

492
00:24:07,180 --> 00:24:04,370
was breaking his security oath to talk

493
00:24:10,510 --> 00:24:07,190
about something that was seen by many

494
00:24:11,790 --> 00:24:10,520
people at serving at the base he was

495
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:11,800
told by one of the Congo

496
00:24:15,690 --> 00:24:13,690
people that he could testify because

497
00:24:17,310 --> 00:24:15,700
they were been in Congress and it became

498
00:24:19,260 --> 00:24:17,320
a question of if this was actually even

499
00:24:20,670 --> 00:24:19,270
legal to have this type of testimony

500
00:24:24,300 --> 00:24:20,680
given the security oathean

501
00:24:25,890 --> 00:24:24,310
signed in any case the media were there

502
00:24:27,930 --> 00:24:25,900
including the New York Times and The

503
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:27,940
Washington Post and The Washington Post

504
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:32,050
editorial had a story about this and we

505
00:24:36,590 --> 00:24:33,730
were curious to see if they reported

506
00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:36,600
seriously or not and they said after

507
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:39,370
covering this just superficially that

508
00:24:43,890 --> 00:24:41,410
they had talked to a psychiatrist and

509
00:24:46,980 --> 00:24:43,900
this was a form of schizo tipple mental

510
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:46,990
disorder now the last time I checked sac

511
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:49,570
radar doesn't have skits a temple Messel

512
00:24:54,570 --> 00:24:52,090
disorder you know radar is highly

513
00:24:57,660 --> 00:24:54,580
calibrated it's not it's not a credible

514
00:25:00,060 --> 00:24:57,670
argument when you have so much data air

515
00:25:01,740 --> 00:25:00,070
radar ground radar multiple sightings to

516
00:25:03,300 --> 00:25:01,750
call this a schizo typical mental

517
00:25:05,220 --> 00:25:03,310
disorder so I think we need to move

518
00:25:07,050 --> 00:25:05,230
forward past that point and really deal

519
00:25:08,130 --> 00:25:07,060
with the evidence because quite frankly

520
00:25:09,870 --> 00:25:08,140
I'm concerned that there could be

521
00:25:12,330 --> 00:25:09,880
hundreds or thousands of people out

522
00:25:13,740 --> 00:25:12,340
there in our society let alone the

523
00:25:15,300 --> 00:25:13,750
Soviet Union where we know this sort of

524
00:25:18,270 --> 00:25:15,310
incident has also happened with their

525
00:25:19,980 --> 00:25:18,280
nuclear missiles that can't talk about

526
00:25:21,420 --> 00:25:19,990
it and they tell their kids as they're

527
00:25:24,150 --> 00:25:21,430
about to die we should hear about it

528
00:25:27,060 --> 00:25:24,160
here not at the end of their life thank

529
00:25:29,700 --> 00:25:27,070
you well I think you're I mean it's hard

530
00:25:32,550 --> 00:25:29,710
to top that you're absolutely right but

531
00:25:34,350 --> 00:25:32,560
I just to sort of piggyback it research

532
00:25:36,810 --> 00:25:34,360
shows that the vast majority of these

533
00:25:40,170 --> 00:25:36,820
so-called abductees psychopathology does

534
00:25:42,510 --> 00:25:40,180
not explain their experience it simply

535
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:42,520
doesn't it may explain some of them but

536
00:25:46,410 --> 00:25:44,290
psychopathology does not explain it

537
00:25:48,570 --> 00:25:46,420
coaxing does not explain it again it may

538
00:25:52,790 --> 00:25:48,580
explain some but not most of them these

539
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:52,800
people are found to be not psychotic and

540
00:26:00,780 --> 00:25:57,250
not faking and most of them and you're

541
00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:00,790
right I've had gentlemen that I saw that

542
00:26:04,980 --> 00:26:03,370
lived in northern Pennsylvania that came

543
00:26:07,050 --> 00:26:04,990
all the way down to see me in Prince

544
00:26:08,670 --> 00:26:07,060
George's County which you don't know

545
00:26:11,990 --> 00:26:08,680
where that is it's on the south end of

546
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:12,000
DC came down and see me several times

547
00:26:17,970 --> 00:26:14,890
for individual therapy to talk about his

548
00:26:19,830 --> 00:26:17,980
experiences because he says he doesn't

549
00:26:22,510 --> 00:26:19,840
can't tell anybody else because anybody

550
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:22,520
talks to what's the usual you're lying

551
00:26:26,290 --> 00:26:24,170
you're crazy it's the devil and he

552
00:26:28,180 --> 00:26:26,300
couldn't talk to anybody else I finally

553
00:26:30,310 --> 00:26:28,190
let him know that David Jacobs was

554
00:26:31,060 --> 00:26:30,320
closer to home couldn't talk about it

555
00:26:32,380 --> 00:26:31,070
with anyone

556
00:26:35,110 --> 00:26:32,390
it was another case was actually

557
00:26:38,740 --> 00:26:35,120
referred to me by this white X of a

558
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:38,750
woman who had abduction experiences at a

559
00:26:43,420 --> 00:26:41,690
segment of her life told no one told did

560
00:26:45,460 --> 00:26:43,430
not tell her husband did not tell her

561
00:26:47,710 --> 00:26:45,470
closest friend who she's had lunch with

562
00:26:49,450 --> 00:26:47,720
every month since she ate they were in

563
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:49,460
high school and she felt like she's

564
00:26:55,270 --> 00:26:52,010
getting older now she doesn't want to go

565
00:26:59,440 --> 00:26:55,280
to her deathbed and tell no one so she

566
00:27:02,800 --> 00:26:59,450
called foo for I guess and thus white X

567
00:27:06,460 --> 00:27:02,810
come to find out this lady is lives in

568
00:27:10,140 --> 00:27:06,470
walking distance to my house and I saw

569
00:27:13,090 --> 00:27:10,150
her a number of times and like you say

570
00:27:15,850 --> 00:27:13,100
she she hadn't told anyone and she felt

571
00:27:17,260 --> 00:27:15,860
like I got to tell someone so you're

572
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:17,270
right it's a big problem because people

573
00:27:22,150 --> 00:27:20,090
have these experiences faint talking so

574
00:27:24,340 --> 00:27:22,160
many of them so which I what's the real

575
00:27:26,170 --> 00:27:24,350
incidence or prevalence who knows

576
00:27:28,270 --> 00:27:26,180
because so many don't don't want to

577
00:27:30,700 --> 00:27:28,280
admit it because again you're lying

578
00:27:32,130 --> 00:27:30,710
you're crazy it's the devil thank you